Run your car on water - legit or scam?

I ran across this web site, Water 4 Gas. The first thing I thought was scam scam scam scamity scam. So, of course, I wanted more information. First, you have to remember that NET stands for Not Entirely True, so don't believe everything you read on the sites you get when you search for more information. Here are my findings:

Not much useful. Everything I found in my Google searches were from people selling the product. One page was from a blogger, like me, who wanted to know more. However, it looks like all he did was read the pages from the people selling the product and decide that it was a good thing. That is not what I was looking for. I was some solid research showing me that the thing works or doesn't. When I searched for "run car on water kits scam" I got mostly sellers trying to boost their sales by cashing in on the sceptics looking for real answers.

I also found several groups where someone would say "Is this a scam or not" and then they would discuss and a bunch of people would say that it is a scam and some would say "I don't know, it could be real." I am trying to remain objective and want real research.

I next turned to the trusty old library. Every library I've ever belonged to allows its members to search journals and databases as well as book. I searched the journals. These products run on something called Brown's Gas, so I searched for that. Google's Patent Search came up in the results with a patent related to the technology. A patent just says "we own this, you can't make it." There is no research that says that it actually works. That comes later.

Next I ran across an article called "Investigating Brown's gas, a tiny TV generator, and more." by Don Lancaster (Electronics Now; Feb98, Vol. 69 Issue 2, p22). One section of the article was on Brown's Gas use in torches. In that article I learned that Brown's Gas does exist. It can be created by electrolosys and that, as they claim, you can breifly place your hand in front of the flame without burning yourself. He does caution against actually doing this though, and I second that caution.

The sellers of this technology claim that they can melt tungstun with it. This claim seems to be bogus. They also claim that it changes temperature based on the melting point of the product it touches. This seems to be based on bad science. I don't fully understand the science, so I will leave the discussion of this to others who do.

Hydrogen Fuel Cells are on their way. Many are asking for it. Bush signed the Hydrogen Fuel Initiative in 2003. You can buy the Fuel Cell X7 Hydrogen Car Design Project Kit and make your own model hydrogen car. This does not mean that the claims that you can add a simple tank of water to your car fuel system and get better milage are true. Many of their claims are faulty, so I say it is most likely a scam. If you want to give it a try and let me know what you find out, feel free.

I might waste my money on one just to see what it is. I'd first need someone who knows more about internal cumbustion engines than just "the gas goes here" type knowledge that I have. Living in Oregon, I don't even really have to know how to pump gas. I'm not allowed to pump my own.


Comments

just what we need

cars running on hydrogen...danger...danger...sierra parts

Much Confusion Over HHO Generators

Thanks for referencing my website. I've blogged about the run your car on water devices (HHO generators) several times on this site and other sites. There seems to be much confusion as to what the BHO generators (Water 4 Gas sells 2 ebooks on the subject) are about. HHO generators are different technology than that used on hydrogen fuel cell cars. HHO generators, such as the Smack's Booster, are used on gasoline-powered cars and some diesel trucks as a fuel supplement to increase mileage. The HHO generators do not violate the laws of thermodynamics because these are not "run your car on 100-percent water" car devices as perpetual motion machines don't exist. HHO generators use a small amount of water, usually with an electrolyte to help conductivity and then electrolyze the H2O into HHO gas. This HHO gas is then injected into the vehicles' intake system to help the gasoline or diesel fuel burn more efficiently. HHO generators are aftermarket add-on devices that one can buy or build. They are based on old technology (electrolysis of water) but being used in a new way (fuel supplement) so information on them is scarce right now.

Free Plans

I just ran into these free plans online. I'm a firefighter, and my captain is pretty mechanically minded. We'll be trying to build this thing (they call this one a "Smack Booster") at work and hook it up to my truck. I've at least read that these things won't do any damage to the engine if they don't work, and hey, I don't have a warranty to worry about voiding on my truck. I'll keep you posted. As far as finding more out about the previous companies I mentioned, the "fuel it Cheap" people weren't much help at all. They said they were certifying some mechanics in my area, but didn't say when, or if they'd even let me know who, so i could talk to them.

Time to exhale

This is clearly a scam! When a friend first forwarded a link to one of the sites selling these 'kits' I thought it was pretty hilarious - until I realized that there was actually a link to a page where you could enter financial information! Even then I thought that maybe when you got to the end of the financial entry page, something would pop up and say 'Gotcha - April Fools'! So let's think about the claim that you can improve a car engine's efficiency by 'burning' water. While it's true that car engines operate at only about 20%-25% efficiency at turning chemical energy into kinetic energy, this is due to the physical laws that govern the operation of that process. If you want to understand this better, you will need to study up on thermodynamics. At a minimum, try this thought experiment: Consider that you can't get more energy out of a system than you put in. To do so would be to create a perpetual motion machine. Many have tried; none have succeeded so far! All the energy that is needed to run a car comes from the chemical reaction between the gasoline and oxygen in the atmosphere. This includes the energy needed to run all accessories including lights, radio, ignition, etc. and recharging the battery to replace the energy it delivered to start the motor. The water2gas sites suggest that you can take a portion of the electrical energy from the battery (actually coming from the engine itself via the alternator) to electrolyze water into hydrogen and oxygen and then recombine those elements in the engine combustion chamber to improve the efficiency of the engine. Think about that. If you could get more energy out of this system (by burning the hydrogen and oxygen along with the gasoline) than you put in (energy from gasoline used to drive alternator to electrolyze the water), you would have created a perpetual motion machine! Nice! One final comment. Most of the water2gas sites talk about creating a 'hybrid' car that burns both gasoline and 'water'. If burning water was so efficient, why not dispense with burning gasoline altogether and run the car on straight water? Just hook your car battery to the electrolyzing cell and route the tube of 'Browns Gas' straight to your engine and run on that! So why don't these sites recommend that? Because your car wouldn't move! As long as your car is running on gasoline, you can hook up any of these devices and your car will continue to run. This reduces the potential liability to the site of people realizing they've been scammed and demanding their money back! So enjoy these sites for what they are. A good source of humor. But note that while there are laws preventing the sale of snake oil as medicine, there are no laws preventing the sale of fake technoligical devices that make outrageous claims such as this. Remember, buyer beware!!!

Re: Time to Exhale

I get SO tired ofthe nay sayers who "know all the answers" when, in fact, they don't even know the question.

Sit Down - Shut Up - Read!!

Here is a synopsis of a sampling of the research that has been done:

Because these articles are typically privy to only the scientific community, the general public does not read them or see them on the news. Justification of technological viability must come from mainstream authorities!
It would be nice if CNN would do an Documentary about these articles!! They all are about the concept of

more thoughts on the

scam scam scamity scam scam

Yes, there's plenty of proof that injecting hydrogen into the combustion chamber improves efficiency. The question is "where does that hydrogen come from?" or more specifically "how much energy does it cost to generate and deliver that hydrogen?"

Think about it: If this was really such a great idea, why is the only place to find out about it at these websites? Don't you think you'd be able to find something at your local auto parts store? Or shops that would do this conversion?

Don't believe me? Here's a reputable newspaper's analysis: http://www.insidebayarea.com/trivalleyherald/ci_9492661

Result: Scam!

Holding my breath, while I'm hoping

I'm in the same boat you are. It's hard to find a blog or site that doesn't have a subjective spin on the topic. Most of the DIY sites for the hydrogen conversion have the same two or three videos from youtube that talk about the conversion. I have seen one site that offers a little more pricey alternative, but doesn't really instill much more confidence. I'm currently e-mailing the people running the site trying to get more info. Good luck finding out whether it's the real deal. Here are a couple of the sites I've seen... http://www.fuelitcheap.com/index.php http://www.yourmileagesolution.com/ http://www.runyourcarwithwater.com/?hop=tounano http://www.auto-facts.org/water4gas-scam.html

The last site is a .org site... does this mean anything in particular, or is it a public site that someone can buy like any other?

Thanks for the additional

Thanks for the additional info!

As for the .org, those "1st level domain" names used to mean something. .com was commercial, .org, organization, and .net, network. If you were a commercial venue, you were supposed to use .com. That is no longer the case. Anyone can buy any of those names for any reason and use them as they like.

There are still some the have meaning, such as .gov for government sites, .us for more government stuff, and .edu for educational.

Hope to see you around more!

Jason

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